Wednesday, December 10, 2008

Gay folks & Black folks Part I



A queer...okay pretty much African American bull dyke... pal and former schoolmate of mine, embittered over the bobbled opportunity and loss in Cali's Prop. 8 told me: "Ellen Degeneres is our version of Sammy Davis Jr. So eager to fit in as an entertainer that she's become an irrelevancy to a larger movement and a response to a lack of civil rights, like Sammy in the 50s and 60s."

Unfair to Sammy, based on the research. Unfair to Ellen, too. But do you understand her point? My pal applauded Wanda Sykes. But she says other black gays need to step up, stop lying, and put a real, relateable face on things. She wasn't talking about "umasking" dudes on the DL. That stuff re: Tyler Perry, Shemar Moore et al is for another soap opera. Rather, what she's talking about is a wish that familiar names could humanize the yearnings of gays for the full civil blessings they pay for in the their taxes. They'd have the public megaphone of TV. They even, so goes the hope, would be eloquent spokespeople.

Or should they just STFU? Thoughts?

82 comments:

Anonymous said...

Sorry, but gay people are liars. A church wedding is a religious ceremony, which violates that much-ballyhooed "separation of church and state." "Gay Marriage" is one of the biggest lies ever since they are offered CIVIL UNIONS (a secular ceremony) which offers the same protection as "marriage"--if a gay couple does not file for a civil union, of course they can't get pensions or visit their SO in the hospital or get their children--but they do have that right if they are in a civil union. Straight people enter into "civil unions" all the time when they choose a judge to officiate their ceremony! The "gay marriage" agenda is just a straightforward attack on the Christian church. I don't see any gay Muslims decrying their inability to marry in a mosque, or gay Mormons trying to get married in the temple, or gay Buddhists angry over their exclusion.

If gays weren't so obsessed with pushing their agenda on people--and call the "gay card" (haha)--people wouldn't be so irritated and resistant. But no...they have to go around suing innocent companies for dating services, they have to go around taking children to their weddings as a field trip, they have to go around giving teenagers booklets on how to have gay sex and winking at how much better it feels to have sex without a condom, parents won't be going to jail for speaking out against materials handed to his 5 yr old!

I find it absolutely INSANE that it's actually being pushed for people to add lessons on gay tolerance in public school when black folks NEVER had that help back in the day. Or, how gays have been pushing for their history to be added to school textbooks when nobody--black, white,Latino,etc--knows any other black history outside of slavery, the Civil Rights Movement and MLK! (and practically ZERO about Asian, Native American and Latino history in the US) Nor do kids even know how this damn government works!

The homosexual agenda is a farce.

Christopher Chambers said...

I'm sorry, Anon. but marriage is a secular/civil/legal condition. As said thru comments or directly on this blog, you need a license from the government to get married, and you need a license from the government to perform a marriage. Note, the government, not God.

Now, as gays are citizens of this nation whether you like it or not, this implicates the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. That was pssed after thousands died in the Civil War. In reality that blood was reaaly the ink on the Amendment--more controversial than the 13th Amendment ending slavery--an in turn it was merely a repeal of the Dred Scott case. All boiled down.
Now, 140 years later any citizen can claim due process and equal protection of law. Unless a gay person somehow disqualifies his/herself from that umbrella by removing themselves from the jurisdiction, becoming a convicted felon, etc.--sorry, they can get a marriage license. The courts of various states are going to have to grapple with that. Whether someone's married in a church, temple, whatever--who cares? It's not relevant.

I don't know what you mean by agenda, or attack on Christians, but if it makes you feel better to be "the victim" that's fine. It's also a typical reponse: flipping the script to self defense. More extreme examples of this are the Hutus blaming Tutsis, or Serbs blaming Bosnians. Very effective.

Therefore if you don't want "them" in your church, well, that kind of attitude seems to be what Jesus abhorred, but I'll go with you on it. Be as nasty as you want. But going to the county clerk for a marriage license? Nope. Get over it.

Anonymous said...

SoCal 82Tiger Says:

Anon & Professor: I will forever agree to disagree with much of what both of you have to say… Gays are not “liars” & You cannot convince people that a union between men and women is THE SAME as same sex unions...

This "hater" card that is aggressively thrown about way too often in such disagreements is a convenient way for both sides to keep earnest people quite in speaking about an honest disagreement with each of you on your points.

It's easy to dismiss the other side (whatever side that is) in a passionate & difficult argument whenever you resort to say that they are not only wrong, BUT THAT THEY ARE ALSO EVIL!

This is an un-winnable argument for unless you can convince people that the unions of every man and women are THE SAME as same sex unions. If you can figure out an argument that accomplishes this goal then PLEASE have it – Other wise you both start sounding like the intolerant haters you each often rant against...

carl said...

SoCal Tiger: (LSU Tigers?) I don't think Nat Turner's own comment (I'm not alluding to the actual blog post) is not hating but a fairly decent survey of reality, or at least legal reality, I suppose. Anonymous however could reasonably be labeled and unreasonable rant.

Darren Lenard Hutchinson said...

Hello, anonymous. Your post contains an incredible amount of misinformation. First, legal marriage is not religious, and weddings that take place in religious facilities do not violate constitutional norms. In order to become legally married, the couple need not even have any type of "ceremony" (religious or otherwise). All you need to do is process the paperwork required to get a license and sign those documents before the required number of witnesses. Then you are married. Wedding ceremonies are just cultural events. The only legal significance they have is that ministers are licensed to perform marriages. But nonreligious figures can do this as well.

Furthermore, "civil unions" have become an alternative to marriage. They are not the same thing as a marriage without a ceremony, however. Heterosexuals who get married outside of a church are still legally MARRIED. People who enter into civil union in or out of church are not married. Yes - some people have ceremonies to celebrate civil unions. More importantly, the VAST MAJORITY of states do not even offer civil unions. So gays and lesbians usually do not have the option of getting all of the rights associated with marriage. Furthermore, the federal government does not recognize any type of same-sex union (neither marriage or civil unions) for benefits purposes. So glbt people cannot qualify for benefits related to social security, immigration, healthcare, etc., if they accrue to "married" couples. This is blatant discrimination.

Finally, your argument that "gay marriage" represents an attack on the Christian church does not stand up to reality. Many "Christian churches" perform same-sex marriages. So do many Jewish Temples. I am not familiar with the other faiths you mention, but there are progressive traditions in virtually all religious faiths that embrace glbt people. If a same-sex couple wants a religious marriage ceremony, they can usually find a place to hold the event. If your argument were correct, then we would hear about churches in Massachusetts and Connecticut being forced to perform same-sex marriages. The fact that we have not seen this, shows that your argument is wrong.

PS: I hope you come back to this blog to see the responses. But if you do not, others can benefit from a dose of reality. I have written several articles on this issue:

http://dissentingjustice.blogspot.com/2008/11/would-obama-have-won-if-he-were.html

http://dissentingjustice.blogspot.com/2008/10/same-sex-marriage-and-racial-justice.html

Lisa said...

Ellen is the gay Sammy. True that (smile). But Sammy later redeemed himself and "came back" to us.

Ellen's gonna have her backlash moment like Oprah w/Barack.

bbgcmac said...

I think your right Chris - the best way to speed gay rights is for gays (prominent in the closet ones especially) to come out and let it be what it be. One cannot say on one hand, "It doesn't matter what i am, none of your business." and then still expect mainstream society to get with whats generally uncomfortable to them. That may not be right - but its true. A lot of that language is hidden in "I don't want to lose these loot opportunities by turning these fans off." So its a trojan horse. It has to be one thing or the other.

Christian M. Howell said...

Howdy,
A new poster who says they should just STFU. No one cares. You take in this country. No one is giving away anything.

I have enough of my OWN problems as an intelligent black man who knows what size he wears to be worried about the "civil rights" of gays.

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